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D1 - Quality vs Quantity

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D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by jataca on 8/11/2013, 3:32 pm

Of the "top" 5 clubs (the 4 clubs with Academy & Liverpool due to quantity of teams) here are the percentage of their teams that qualified for D1.  

# of teams in D1 / # of teams in qualifying tournament

Andromeda:  0 / 1 = 0%
Dallas Texans: 2 / 7  = 29%
FC Dallas: 3 / 9  = 33%
Liverpool: 5 / 8 = 63%
Solar: 3 / 3 = 100%

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 8/11/2013, 10:14 pm

Top 5 teams in Division 1

1. Solar
2. Odyssey
3. FC Dallas
4. Dallas Texans
5. Dallas Texans South

So does this mean each club represented by 1 team in the top 5 is at 20 percent and the Texans who are represented by two teams are at 40 percent?

I think we need to wait till the end of the year before we get too giddy about the merits of one club over another.


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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Guest on 8/12/2013, 8:53 am

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
I think we need to wait till the end of the year before we get too giddy about the merits of one club over another.
Clubs ? What's that ?

Is there anything that ties the FCD teams together ? or the texans, Solar or Liverpool teams ?
Is Liverpool Wright playing the same soccer than Liverpool Trevino ? Are they developing their players the same way ?
What's the connection between Texans Thornber and Texans south ?

All I see are companies selling themselves. Right now I would say that Liverpool has the best sales rep and Andro the worst. Soccer has nothing to do with all that. We are talking sales here.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Rooneyhasplugs on 8/12/2013, 9:05 am

gababa wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:
I think we need to wait till the end of the year before we get too giddy about the merits of one club over another.
Clubs ? What's that ?

Is there anything that ties the FCD teams together ? or the texans, Solar or Liverpool teams ?
Is Liverpool Wright playing the same soccer than Liverpool Trevino ? Are they developing their players the same way ?
What's the connection between Texans Thornber and Texans south ?

All I see are companies selling themselves. Right now I would say that Liverpool has the best sales rep and Andro the worst. Soccer has nothing to do with all that. We are talking sales here.
You got it. Just names on a shirt. Any team with a pulse and willing to pay for the name can be part of the club. Many do so they can beat their chest about it. But in fairness the "clubs" are in the capitalism business not the developmental business. If you understand that then you should be fine. If not you will end up bitter and disillusioned like most.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by protayus on 8/12/2013, 9:40 am

gababa wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:
I think we need to wait till the end of the year before we get too giddy about the merits of one club over another.
Clubs ? What's that ?

Is there anything that ties the FCD teams together ? or the texans, Solar or Liverpool teams ?
Is Liverpool Wright playing the same soccer than Liverpool Trevino ? Are they developing their players the same way ?
What's the connection between Texans Thornber and Texans south ?

All I see are companies selling themselves. Right now I would say that Liverpool has the best sales rep and Andro the worst. Soccer has nothing to do with all that. We are talking sales here.
I cannot disagree with "companies selling themselves", except that I would clarify the companies sell themselves to the coaches, and the coaches sell the program to the parents.

I can also say that Wright and Trevino do not currently share the same training, but Trevino and Schell do along with the other Schell and Phillips team. I can say that the TFC model worked well for this group and Tim, Dom, and Frankie have all worked with these groups.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by passfast on 8/12/2013, 11:19 am

Is that age group doing well because of the combination coaching or because Trevino is ultra-serious about his son's team? His other age groups also practice with Schell, etc., but don't get the devotion and time that the 03s do

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by protayus on 8/12/2013, 11:54 am

passfast wrote:Is that age group doing well because of the combination coaching or because Trevino is ultra-serious about his son's team?  His other age groups also practice with Schell, etc., but don't get the devotion and time that the 03s do
I would guess both? I would imagine any top team has an ultra dedicated coach? and it can't surely cant hurt when you have 3 who all bring some different to the table. I can't speak to their commitment to different age groups as it's outside my scope. But it any case having a larger talent pool and multiple teams working within the same system has it's advantages for those willing to subscribe to the system.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Guest on 8/12/2013, 12:21 pm

protayus wrote:
passfast wrote:Is that age group doing well because of the combination coaching or because Trevino is ultra-serious about his son's team?  His other age groups also practice with Schell, etc., but don't get the devotion and time that the 03s do
I would imagine any top team has an ultra dedicated coach?
AH AH AH. Good one.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by go99 on 8/12/2013, 12:27 pm

dedicated to getting his money
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D1- Quality vs Quantity

Post by BiroBiro on 8/12/2013, 12:55 pm

If I recall correctly, only top 8 stay D-1 after first year, number 9 - 18 drop to D-2 and top 2 in current D-2 which is really D-3 go into D-1.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by NotADRAMAfan on 8/12/2013, 2:24 pm

BiroBiro wrote:If I recall correctly, only top 8 stay D-1 after first year, number 9 - 18 drop to D-2 and top 2 in current D-2 which is really D-3 go into D-1.
After the U11 classic season ends
teams 1 - 10 stay in D1  U 12
teams 11 - 18 stay in D2 U 12
teams 19 - 20 get relegated to D3 U 12
Teams 1 - 2 in D3 get promoted to D 2 U 12

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 8/13/2013, 12:01 am

Clubs develop players in a consistent fashion and all of the best teams and players come from the clubs. The larger, more successful clubs have more teams at various levels of skill and commitment so the fact that a single club may have multiple teams ranging from the highest to the lowest levels has no bearing on the clubs development methodology.

All of the top clubs have a standard coaching system that develops the style or brand of soccer that they will play.

All of the top clubs have a vested interest in the success of their players and the notion that you pay to play on them is cynical.

I applaud the clubs who are willing to field low level teams and provide them an avenue for development and advancement and I do not see why they should be admonished for it. It's a great system when a low level team plays a losing season and its players can still hold their heads up and be proud of the fact that they are part of a successful club.
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by GDWilly on 8/13/2013, 5:04 am

PremierLeagueFan wrote:Clubs develop players in a consistent fashion and all of the best teams and players come from the clubs. The larger, more successful clubs have more teams at various levels of skill and commitment so the fact that a single club may have multiple teams ranging from the highest to the lowest levels has no bearing on the clubs development methodology.

All of the top clubs have a standard coaching system that develops the style or brand of soccer that they will play.

All of the top clubs have a vested interest in the success of their players and the notion that you pay to play on them is cynical.

I applaud the clubs who are willing to field low level teams and provide them an avenue for development and advancement and I do not see why they should be admonished for it. It's a great system when a low level team plays a losing season and its players can still hold their heads up and be proud of the fact that they are part of a successful club.
If that is the case, why do those teams blow up and disappear?

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by GDWilly on 8/13/2013, 5:06 am

GDWilly wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:Clubs develop players in a consistent fashion and all of the best teams and players come from the clubs. The larger, more successful clubs have more teams at various levels of skill and commitment so the fact that a single club may have multiple teams ranging from the highest to the lowest levels has no bearing on the clubs development methodology.

All of the top clubs have a standard coaching system that develops the style or brand of soccer that they will play.

All of the top clubs have a vested interest in the success of their players and the notion that you pay to play on them is cynical.

I applaud the clubs who are willing to field low level teams and provide them an avenue for development and advancement and I do not see why they should be admonished for it. It's a great system when a low level team plays a losing season and its players can still hold their heads up and be proud of the fact that they are part of a successful club.
If that is the case, why do those teams blow up and disappear?
Every year, there are DIII & upper PPL & API teams that are on the margin that go away.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 8/13/2013, 10:07 am

A lower level team is usually comprised of two types of players, those who are having "Fun" and want a greater challenge than the rec leagues have to offer and those who want to "Develop" and advance to the next level.

Each choice is acceptable for lower level teams because winning and perfection are not at the top of the list on those teams since the level of development is transitional.

Most lower level teams usually "Blow UP or Disappear" when the for "Fun" players lose interest in the game which usually coincides with the "Developing" players moving up to a medium or high level team depending on the amount of effort and interest that they put into their development.

Regardless of the outcome from the low level teams, all of the players share a soccer experience and affiliation with their club and as alumni they have club bragging rights and have made their rite of passage through the soccer community.



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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by DamageInc on 8/13/2013, 10:59 am

Well put PremierLeagueFan.

Quite eloquent.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by finish1 on 8/13/2013, 12:22 pm



PLF, share some examples of a "standard coaching system" between the top clubs that develops a different style of play ?
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by go99 on 8/13/2013, 12:48 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:Clubs develop players in a consistent fashion and all of the best teams and players come from the clubs. The larger, more successful clubs have more teams at various levels of skill and commitment so the fact that a single club may have multiple teams ranging from the highest to the lowest levels has no bearing on the clubs development methodology.

All of the top clubs have a standard coaching system that develops the style or brand of soccer that they will play.

All of the top clubs have a vested interest in the success of their players and the notion that you pay to play on them is cynical.

I applaud the clubs who are willing to field low level teams and provide them an avenue for development and advancement and I do not see why they should be admonished for it. It's a great system when a low level team plays a losing season and its players can still hold their heads up and be proud of the fact that they are part of a successful club.
Very eloquent and a wonderful read. Also complete and utter BS. Seems to be a wonderful pros on how things should be done but has not connection to anything that is being done here in NTX. Not a single club has a "style" of play. Even the Texans have a couple of coaches that don't practice the Texas boot'n run. They have no Vested interest at all. Possibly FCD but they can just recruit you later and get the 2 yr player rights. They are vested in you development just sort of letting it all sort itself out then sign the ones of the top. And instead of holding your head up because of an association with a club (that parents pay for) A kid should be proud of his own accomplishments. Believe me is club association is what you seek, every club in NTX has a spot for you somewhere is you have the check
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Number13 on 8/13/2013, 1:01 pm

go99 wrote: Very eloquent and a wonderful read.  Also complete and utter BS.  
So other than that, Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by finish1 on 8/13/2013, 2:17 pm

GO is right. Clubs don't have a style of play, coaches do.
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Axxman on 8/13/2013, 2:19 pm

Number13 wrote:
go99 wrote: Very eloquent and a wonderful read.  Also complete and utter BS.  
So other than that, Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?  
Must say I did lol reading that one. GO is on the money. WE are the play.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Soccerinsanity on 8/13/2013, 2:21 pm

And even coaches are sometimes questionable about their style of play. It lasts right until the team loses!
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Real Barcelona on 8/13/2013, 2:27 pm

Early on coaches facilitate (or hinder) the development of a player. The development of the player is mostly up to the player (80%) and his/her parents (encouragement and most important in North Texas $$$$). The color of the uniform, name of the team etc etc has very little to nothing to do with whether the player can realize its full potential or not.

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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 8/13/2013, 4:49 pm

Top Level Clubs have a style of play and here is a list of some of those styles:

(1) British
Players: physical, quick, direct

(2) Italian
Players: skillful, cunning, cautious

(3) Latin
Players: confident with the ball, good dribblers, creative

(4) Northern
Players: aggressive, fast, organized

(5) Continental
Players: good passing, collectivists

(6) Central American
Players: crafty, excessive dribblers

Club coaches are trained and competent and are tasked with developing players, emphasizing club philosophy, and ultimately club style of play.

In youth academy the emphasis is on ball mastery with an introduction to strategy and tactics in some of the higher level teams.

In pre-academy the emphasis is on positioning, decision making, and strategy.

In Academy the club style of play is more obvious as the players have achieved ball mastery and are able to focus on tactics. This is also the time when parents shift their focus towards team execution of their club style of play.

Going forward this parental shift becomes more unanimous as they gain a better understanding of player and team development through their own personal experience.

This is how club systems work and is the reason for the success of club football in the United States, where school athletic programs tend to dominate in most every sport except Soccer.
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Re: D1 - Quality vs Quantity

Post by Soccernovice on 8/13/2013, 5:00 pm

I do believe some clubs work to emphasize a style of play with AYSES Soccer Club being one of them.  Go99 has seen some of those teams play at U17 and U19 against the big 5 teams.  I believe the AYSES Gold 03 team that just qualified for DI plays just like the AYSES teams that have graduated from the club.  They try to possess the ball and control possession.  The AYSES teams usually have smaller players than the most athletic teams of their age.  The most athletic players at U11 typically gravitate to the Big 5 clubs you mention leaving the smaller clubs to work their way up through recruiting and/or development of players.  The AYSES club tries to take these smaller players and work with them on technical ability till they get bigger, stronger and faster around U17.  For the players that stick with the system they can play pretty attractive soccer compared to other Big 5 club teams that may play more direct or rely on individual athletic talents versus team style of play.  When the young AYSES teams mature, they tend to be more competitive in DI with the Big 5 clubs and are generally play the most attractive style of soccer.  Some of the players get good enough to play on a USSF DA team but choose to stay with AYSES due to the style of play which emphasizes development of technical abilities and is fun to play.

One of the AYSES coaches once said if he had a choice pre-academy and U-11 they would just play small sided games with no goals.  The emphasis on winning at the early ages is so intense it can detract from technical development and many parents get enamored with winning and loosing versus player skill development.  Some players enter the older ages of their competitive youth soccer career doing nothing more from the back then clearing the ball most of the time or kicking it out of bounds under pressure.  I love to see a team work the ball out of the back under pressure, switching field of play back and forth, making runs, making 10, 15 or 20 passes then shooting on the goal.  That to me demonstrates strong technical development of the players and a good return on the club soccer investments.
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