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QT Schedules Brackets Released

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by cruiser on 7/24/2017, 12:33 pm

Agree with Stryker and Roo...lots of scenarios where the advantage of earning a high seed has been largely neutralized - certainly as you move out of top 1-5 seeds. Seems like setup has been overly complicated with the crossover approach and avoiding head to head matchups. In terms of fair - if you're competing with x other teams for a single spot - seems like the fairest way is to simply play those teams.

could have been solved by simply playing your own bracket - and/or even playing an extra game (or two) if necessary.


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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Socceropath on 7/24/2017, 12:43 pm

To add on to what Stryker was saying, this impact is much larger than most realize. If every game in weekend 1 was won by the higher seed, Both 1 and 2 seeds in every bracket 11-20 would be 2-1. So there is truly no advantage gained by the #1 seed in any of these brackets. While you can certainly argue this is "fair" to play common opponents, it fails to reward the higher seed for their body of work to date, which I'd argue is grievously unfair.

When you add to that the fact that seeds 6-15 can essentially beat each other on any given day, this could turn into the wild, wild west. Don't for a second think the top 10 will all roll through unscathed. It will be much tougher to run up the score on your 2nd game of the day. It's gonna be a long week for a bunch of folks out there.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Uncleof05AP on 7/24/2017, 12:45 pm

Socceroo, you answered your own question. This seeding is not about the top fifteen teams or so. It is about the teams seeded 15 to 25. Just because Jeannie Bradford says that one team is ranked 17 and another is 21; that does not make it so.

Last year, the 2005s had more than sixty teams attempt to qualify, and it was done in one weekend. Some brackets had four teams while other brackets had three teams. The three team brackets had crossover games. In my opinion, based on those crossover games, teams that were "better" did not make it based on the crossover games. Here, at the very least, your still have a chance to qualify for D2 if you have a bad weekend

I will bet one zillion dollars that the top ten teams make D1. As Michael Vick stated above, you might have three of the top twenty teams not make D1, and that will not necessarily be because they were better teams than the teams ranked below them.

Socceropath, by having forty teams, it does not water down the competition in D1. That being said, I agree the extra ten teams is probably a money grab, especially considering that in two years there will be fourteen teams that get the boot from Classic League and have to attempt to re-qualify.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Seinfeld4 on 7/24/2017, 1:02 pm

Socceropath wrote:I totally agree too many teams have entered.  QT should be capped at 50 but then again that goes against the whole spirit of the competition.  I don't have an answer on this one...

That being said, the total number of accepted teams should go back to 30.  The additional 10 teams is purely a money grab by Classic and only serves to water down the product on the field.

I would speculate that reducing the accepted teams back to 30 would organically scale back the number of teams trying to qualify.

If it were capped at 50 the league would lose those 10 additional entry fees. Never going to happen.

It is ALWAYS about the money.
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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Seinfeld4 on 7/24/2017, 1:04 pm

just-a-dad wrote:best lesson of all of this is that life is not fair.  teaches kids to understand that you are given a set of rules or cards and you must play them.  if you don't win now, fight harder to win next time.   parents need to not switch teams or quit because their kids didn't make league they wanted

the voice of reason....
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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by JogaBonitoTX on 7/24/2017, 2:02 pm

May have already been mentioned, but worth pointing out that going to D2 at U11 means best case scenario is the team finishes top two in D2 at U11 and earns a bye to D2 for U12. Teams in D2 at U11 need to get promoted at U11 and U12 in order to get to D1 at U13.

With 20 teams, only the top 10 in D1 at U11 will earn a D1 U12 bye. The next 8 teams in D1 (places 11 through 18) go to D2 for U12.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by ScottyTX on 7/24/2017, 2:20 pm

Someone up-thread was speculating that the more defensive teams could be at a disadvantage- but you only need 3 goals if you are going for the full 10 points. Give up the clean sheet from an accidental own goal, or a defensive hiccup, or just a quality shot, and it won't matter what your goal differential is if you have 29 points and the other team has 30 at the end of everything. That could factor in if there are a number of 3-0 and 2-1 ties for first place.

With only 3 games in 105 degree heat, it seems that anything can happen. Or not- as most of the people who have gone through this before seem to say that it almost always works out how it should...

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by DragonStryker on 7/24/2017, 2:47 pm

It's funny those that have older boys are commenting that it almost always works out as it should. They should also note that Classic League hasn't use this qualifying format in at least 10 years, if ever.

In prior years, teams always played teams in their bracket head to head.
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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by cruiser on 7/24/2017, 3:00 pm

and for what it's worth - girls QT was past weekend and appears it was a more traditional "play teams in your own bracket" setup...still seems arbitrarily complicated. We've all watched our boys play all types of tournaments over the last several years - and I can't say I've ever seen this type of setup.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by just-a-dad on 7/24/2017, 3:08 pm

guess I go back to my last response- the rules have been set and now you have to play they way they want. your only choice is to not play and sign up for a league. College football went to a four team playoff which favors certain conferences.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Solar 07B on 7/24/2017, 3:12 pm

Agree Stryker, this format does benefit lower seeded teams. There will be upsets this weekend and parents with "chapped" rear ends.

But no worries everyone, the merry-go-round starts again next summer when DA and ECNL rolls in - there will be plenty of space in D1 if that is what you want to brag about with your work buddies at the water cooler...

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by FCD07 Mom on 7/24/2017, 3:33 pm

Solar 07B wrote:But no worries everyone, the merry-go-round starts again next summer when DA and ECNL rolls in - there will be plenty of space in D1 if that is what you want to brag about with your work buddies at the water cooler...

This is sad but true....this is U11....who cares?

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by TayJ6 on 7/24/2017, 4:09 pm

JogaBonitoTX wrote:May have already been mentioned, but worth pointing out that going to D2 at U11 means best case scenario is the team finishes top two in D2 at U11 and earns a bye to D2 for U12. Teams in D2 at U11 need to get promoted at U11 and U12 in order to get to D1 at U13.

With 20 teams, only the top 10 in D1 at U11 will earn a D1 U12 bye. The next 8 teams in D1 (places 11 through 18) go to D2 for U12.

Your statement is misleading. The top 4 finishers in U11 D2 are promoted to U12 D1. I think you are referring to the transition to U13 when it goes from 20/20 to 10/10/10 as they add D3 and drop down to 30 teams.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Ron Mexico on 7/24/2017, 7:07 pm

Socceropath wrote:, it fails to reward the higher seed for their body of work to date, which I'd argue is grievously unfair.

When you add to that the fact that seeds 6-15 can essentially beat each other on any given day, this could turn into the wild, wild west.   Don't for a second think the top 10 will all roll through unscathed.   It will be much tougher to run up the score on your 2nd game of the day.  It's gonna be a long week for a bunch of folks out there.

Path- You sound like an 8 year old. First, what reward would you expect for the higher seeds? The reward simply is they aren't in the same bracket. Now go prove yourself. There is no "body of work". the committee knows many of these teams have had turn over so they seed it the best they can but they want you to earn it You didn't earn a spot last spring. You earn it this weekend.

And your comment about "grievously unfair' are you kidding. Grievously unfair is ur kid getting cancer. Not playing cross brackets. If a top ten team doesn't make it then they aren't a top ten team.
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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by TayJ6 on 7/24/2017, 7:17 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:...If a top ten team doesn't make it then they aren't a top ten team.

It really is this simple.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Socceropath on 7/24/2017, 8:44 pm

Ronnie boy, if you're gonna come at me you need to step up your game...sounds like an 8 yr old? Seriously? We're on here for entertainment and you're putting us to sleep. As for my opinions...if you disagree that's you're prerogative, opinions are like Ron Mexicos, everyone has one.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by TXSoccerBall on 7/26/2017, 7:45 pm

The following are the brackets seeded 1-60 using YSR NTX rankings. NR means I couldn't find the team in YSR.  Before you jump off-sides...relax.  I know rosters have changed, I know YSR has it flaws.  Just something fun to consider, that is it.

(bracket) 1st seed, 2nd seed, 3rd seed
(A) 1, 28, 30 (T)  22, 27, 57
(B) 3, 39. 50 (S) 15, 33, 58
(C) 2, 32, 48 (R) 17, 24, NR
(D) 4, 46, 51 (Q) 19, 23, 44
(E) 5, 36, 49 (P)  16, 20, 55
(F) 12, 29, 35 (O) 9, 21, 47
(G) 7, 38, 45 (N) 13, 31, 53
(H) 8, 25, 56 (M) 18, 26, 54
(I) 11, 41, 52 (L) 14, 37, 42
(J)  6. 34. 43 (K) 10, 40, NR

Based on YSR...D, I and K seem to have the weakest 2nd and 3rd seeds.


Last edited by TXSoccerBall on 7/27/2017, 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : aligned the bracket match ups)

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Ron Mexico on 7/27/2017, 7:02 am

Looks like T, P and R are the groups to watch. The rest will likely have little drama.
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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Socceropath on 7/27/2017, 12:42 pm

I had heard a wild claim that a team could potentially go 0-3 and qualify D1.  Although technically true I didn't give it much credence.  Upon further examination however, I've come across at least 1 bracket that has an uncomfortably large chance of this happening.  

In the A/T bracket, obviously FCD will win out, but the top 2 seeds in T (Tigres and FC Leon) have virtually no advantage over the bottom 2 seeds in A (Fort Worth FC and Triumph).  The YSR rankings are 29, 25, 33, and 30.  So Tigres (YSR 29), top seed in T, play #1, #30, and #33.  They'll be in a dog fight to scrape out a single victory.  FC Leon's YSR is 25, so they're basically in the same boat.  On the flip side, Fort Worth FC and Triumph could both go 3-0 and not make D1.  I expect FCD to get the full 30 points, so I still don't give FWFC or Triumph more than 1% chance of advancing.

Bottom line is a flawed tourney setup combined with questionable seeding is setting up for a wild adventure.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Guest on 7/27/2017, 1:59 pm

Socceropath wrote:I had heard a wild claim that a team could potentially go 0-3 and qualify D1.  Although technically true I didn't give it much credence.  Upon further examination however, I've come across at least 1 bracket that has an uncomfortably large chance of this happening.  

In the A/T bracket, obviously FCD will win out, but the top 2 seeds in T (Tigres and FC Leon) have virtually no advantage over the bottom 2 seeds in A (Fort Worth FC and Triumph).  The YSR rankings are 29, 25, 33, and 30.  So Tigres (YSR 29), top seed in T, play #1, #30, and #33.  They'll be in a dog fight to scrape out a single victory.  FC Leon's YSR is 25, so they're basically in the same boat.  On the flip side, Fort Worth FC and Triumph could both go 3-0 and not make D1.  I expect FCD to get the full 30 points, so I still don't give FWFC or Triumph more than 1% chance of advancing.

Bottom line is a flawed tourney setup combined with questionable seeding is setting up for a wild adventure.

Like I said previously, the following is not out of the realm of possibility in this system:

FCD- goes 3-0. Scores of 15-1, 25-1, 100-1 = 27pts (scores exaggerated, yes I know)

FWFC and/or Triumph- goes 3-0. Scores of 3-2, 3-2 and 3-0 = 28 pts


Obviously shut outs could be the key in this group. Fluke goals happen and it could knock the #1 seed out. Guess we'll see this weekend how this all plays out.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by ScottyTX on 7/27/2017, 2:42 pm

Lots of strange strategies and scenarios could emerge-

1. If you are going against a Top 5 team, concede defeat ahead of time (or early) and push numbers forward for a goal. Better to lose 16-1 than 8-0 in that match. The extra point versus that opponent is probably worth more than the goal differential.
2. Park the bus once you get to 3-0 in a game.
3. There will probably be a few Sunday games where the bracket winner is already determined, and how that final game goes will influence their competition for the coming year
etc etc
All in fun Smile

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Socceropath on 7/27/2017, 2:57 pm

Good tactics Scotty. Brackets P-T are expected to have each have at least a 2 way tie.

Another seeding anomaly, Bracket Q is set up for a 3 way tie at 2-1 as all 3 teams will be the favorite vs the ultra weak Bracket D 2-3 seeds.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by TXSoccerBall on 8/7/2017, 3:55 pm

The results per bracket.  
- 12 brackets produced one of each (D1, D2, DNQ)
- 7 of the 12 produced D1, D2, DNQ in order of seeding
- of note: G versus N match up in week 1, all six teams qualified

A D1 FC Dallas Youth 07B Academy
A D2 Triumph Futbol Club 07B Vincent - Ft. Worth
A DNQ Fort Worth FC 07B Black

B D1 Dallas Texans Dallas Texans 07 Boys Dallas
B D2 Texas Lightning Texas Lightning 07Boys (Todd Brown)
B DNQ Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Juliao

C D1 Dallas Texans Dallas Texans 07B Red
C DNQ Texas Xtreme Texas Xtreme FC 07B
C DNQ Dallas Rush FC Dallas Rush White

D D1 Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Mckinney
D DNQ Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Figueroa
D DNQ FC Dallas Youth 07B North Gold

E D2 Dallas Rush FC Dallas Rush 07B Voutier
E D1 Liverpool 07 Boys St. John
E DNQ Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Tezkol

F D1 Allegiance FC Allegiance FC 07B Black - Pedro
F D2 Tigres Academy Ft Worth Tigres 07
F D2 Liverpool 07 Boys Heighway

G D1 ELITE UNITED FC Elite United FC 07B (Arana)
G D2 Juventud FC FC Juve 07B
G D2 FC Premier FC Premier 07B

H D1 Liverpool 07 Boys Owen
H DNQ Dallas Texans Dallas Texans 07B West
H D2 Sporting United SC Sporting United 07

I D1 Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Kennington
I D2 American Academy of Soccer AAOS 07B Pulisic
I DNQ FC Dallas Youth 07B Central Blue

J D1 Dallas Rebels Soccer Club Dallas Rebels 07B Loya
J D2 Liverpool 07 Boys Carragher
J D2 FC Dallas Youth 07B Black

K D2 Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Volkan
K D1 Dallas Texans Dallas Texans 07BSth
K DNQ American Academy of Soccer AAOS 07B Acosta

L D2 FC LEGENDS UTD 07B
L DNQ North Texas United FC 07B Hernandez
L D1 FC Dallas Youth 07B West Blue

M D1 FC Dallas Youth 07 Boys
M D2 Dallas TNT Youth Soccer Club Dallas TNT 07 Boys Baird
M DNQ Strikers Soccer Club Strikers SC 07B Selby

N D1 AYSES Soccer Club AYSES 07 Boys Gold
N D2 Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B McKinney / Lanier
N D2 FC Dallas Youth 07B West Red

O D1 East Texas Wildcatters SC ETW SC 07B
O D2 DI Stars FC DI Stars FC 07B Jarjoura
O DNQ Colleyville SA Evolution 07B Green

P D1 NTX Celtic FC 07B Shirley
P D2 FC FAST FC FAST 07B (Donaghy)
P DNQ Dallas Roma FC Dallas Roma FC 07B

Q D1 FC Dallas Youth 07B Blue
Q DNQ Elite United FC Elite United FC 07B White
Q DNQ FC Dallas Youth 07B Silver

R D2 Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Martinez
R D1 Fever United Fever United 07 Moreno
R DNQ Dallas Cosmos Soccer Club Cosmos 07B Black

S D1 FC Dallas ETX FC Dallas ETX Premier 07 B
S D2 Rayos FC Rayos 07 Martinez
S DNQ Solar Soccer Club Solar 07B Evans

T DNQ CLUB LEON NORTH TEXAS FC LEON RED
T D1 Garland Tigres Academy Garland Tigres 07 GOLD
T DNQ Texas Spurs FC Texas Spurs FC 07B

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

Post by Bears on 8/8/2017, 6:10 am

Thank you TX Soccer Ball. Your data crunching is appreciated and interesting.

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Re: QT Schedules Brackets Released

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