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What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

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What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/6/2017, 9:41 am

Can someone remind me of why we pay SOOO much money to coaches/clubs?
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by allen04 on 6/6/2017, 9:51 am

bumper stickers and entertainment
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by rocketpop on 6/6/2017, 10:01 am

Because people are willing to pay SOOO much. Pricing is set by what the market will bear. The problem is that people are willing to pay the prices the clubs are setting and if you don't then someone else will. Cost will continue to rise as long as there is enough will to pay.


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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 6/6/2017, 10:02 am

Because the market allows it; in other words, idiot parents and uncles created the problem and continue to feed it.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/7/2017, 11:31 am

I get all that but the question is why do we pay coaches?
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Sprint on 6/7/2017, 12:40 pm

Riquelme Rises wrote:I get all that but the question is why do we pay coaches?

Because they won't do it for free ( I wouldn't expect them to) and we (the parents) believe because of the coaches background and experience he is better suited to coach our kids teams than a dad of one of the players.  

Those assumptions could all be wrong, but that is why we do it.  A dad of a player could start a team, get it in CL and there would be no need to pay him.  But he may have never played soccer and have no idea what he is doing.  With a paid coach and resume  you have some type of assurance the coach at least has a background in the sport.  

I coached rec for years and would have been happy to take a team to tryout for select but most of the kids split for club soccer prior to us getting to that age,  as my credentials only include hacking around a ball until I was 18 on pasture like fields with minimal success.

More specifically if you are asking what services they are providing and being paid for its to:

1. Show up and run practices that will help our kids get better
2. Pick a team
3. Recruit players to make the team better each year
4. Show up for and coach games
5. Organize the season calendar of games, tournaments etc
6. Help your kids get fulfill their potential.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by rocketpop on 6/7/2017, 12:59 pm

I have no issues paying my son's coach.  He has 4-5 teams and works 7 days a week.  Some weekends he there all day going from game to game to game.  He is a good coach and a good mentor.

BUT 3k per player to a club is a ton of money.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by allen04 on 6/7/2017, 3:23 pm

Its kind of funny, at least to me anyway, while I admit paying 3k for soccer is a big deal; I can rationalize it and when I break it down for coaches time/effort, fields, admin, league fees...whatever, I don't really have a problem with it.

BUT uniforms on the other hand; $300+?  I don't care if his blue game jersey is a "" jersey.  I don't care if they have matching backpacks; my son has four freaking Adidas backpacks and the newest one sucks, the ball section had to have been made with a size 3 ball in mind because the 5 you practically have to stand on it to get in the damn pouch.  I don't need to buy another pink jersey for the 1 home game in October that my son will wear it (unless like 2015 they all get rained out).  Patches?  Don't need no stinking patches.

Uniforms.  Uniforms get me every single time.


Last edited by allen04 on 6/7/2017, 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Replica is a spam word?)
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/7/2017, 3:45 pm

Sprint wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:I get all that but the question is why do we pay coaches?

Because they won't do it for free ( I wouldn't expect them to) and we (the parents) believe because of the coaches background and experience he is better suited to coach our kids teams than a dad of one of the players.  

Those assumptions could all be wrong, but that is why we do it.  A dad of a player could start a team, get it in CL and there would be no need to pay him.  But he may have never played soccer and have no idea what he is doing.  With a paid coach and resume  you have some type of assurance the coach at least has a background in the sport.  

I coached rec for years and would have been happy to take a team to tryout for select but most of the kids split for club soccer prior to us getting to that age,  as my credentials only include hacking around a ball until I was 18 on pasture like fields with minimal success.

More specifically if you are asking what services they are providing and being paid for its to:

1. Show up and run practices that will help our kids get better- Now when a coach sees a kid with lots of potential and notices he needs maybe one or two things to improve on we as parents pay for that coach to improve those things to make the player better. So with that said when a coach sees a player like that and turns that player away then my thought is "why do you think we are willing to pay you? Too many coaches want ready made players and do not want players they have to work to improve but they want that MONEY BABY.
2. Pick a team - Most want players who already can play not ones they have to work with...easy money always better
3. Recruit players to make the team better each year - but only ones that are highly skilled, even though some kids blossom later but coaches lazy
4. Show up for and coach games - or yell for the sake of being heard (only know one coach who could coach and direct a game)
5. Organize the season calendar of games, tournaments etc - easiest part of the job that gets pushed to the manager most cases
6. Help your kids get fulfill their potential. - 95% of coaches never do this because its all about them and the paycheck 
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/7/2017, 3:51 pm

Dont get me wrong, I am willing to pay a coach that actually takes the time to improve players. That is mainly what we as parents pay them for. The other stuff about being outthere every weekend and every evening well that is the profession they chose and so not to concerned about that. More than anything it is about developing players. There will be someone on this forum that will say its up to the player to improve etc, so my question is, if that is the case why pay a coach if its up to the player?
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by bigtex75081 on 6/7/2017, 3:58 pm

allen04 wrote:Its kind of funny, at least to me anyway, while I admit paying 3k for soccer is a big deal; I can rationalize it and when I break it down for coaches time/effort, fields, admin, league fees...whatever, I don't really have a problem with it.

BUT uniforms on the other hand; $300+?  I don't care if his blue game jersey is a "" jersey.  I don't care if they have matching backpacks; my son has four freaking Adidas backpacks and the newest one sucks, the ball section had to have been made with a size 3 ball in mind because the 5 you practically have to stand on it to get in the damn pouch.  I don't need to buy another pink jersey for the 1 home game in October that my son will wear it (unless like 2015 they all get rained out).  Patches?  Don't need no stinking patches.

Uniforms.  Uniforms get me every single time.
HATE the pink jerseys!  My son hates wearing them.  When he has to wear them, we're stuck discussing why AN 11 YEAR OLD BOY (!!!) should care about breast cancer awareness???

"Hey son.  I know you're mentally preparing for a soccer game but let's talk about this shirt you keep complaining about.  Let's talk about lumps forming in adult women's breasts."  Yeah... great.

If my son and my family are going to support a cause, I want it to mean something to him.  He needs to take ownership for something he cares about.  He needs to understand the point.  I want him to care about the issue he's making a stand against.  I don't want him to simply go through the motions because he's been commanded to.  He has no ownership in this cause for breast cancer awareness.  He doesn't care about it or understand it.  He simply sees it as a punishment that his coach requires him to wear bright pink for a few soccer games.  

He won't even keep it in his bag as a backup shirt.  He complains and complains.  That's how much he hates it.  Is that the goal for the people that require us to buy that pink shirt?
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by 04Soccerdad on 6/7/2017, 4:47 pm

Something to think about. I just moved up to Denver. I got my boys playing for Colorado Rapids. Fees for both boys are less than what I was paying for 1 in DFW. On top of that, we have practice 3 days a week for 1 1/2 hrs compared to 2 days a week in DFW. The fields are the same as the ones FC Dallas practice on. The big difference with CR is that they put 2 teams per field and not 10 like FCD.

Makes you wonder why the "big club" in Denver can do it for so much less.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by rocketpop on 6/8/2017, 8:22 am

The big clubs can do it for less but why would they? They can charge a high price and people are willing to pay it.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/8/2017, 8:23 am

04Soccerdad wrote:Something to think about.  I just moved up to Denver.  I got my boys playing for Colorado Rapids.  Fees for both boys are less than what I was paying for 1 in DFW.  On top of that, we have practice 3 days a week for 1 1/2 hrs compared to 2 days a week in DFW.  The fields are the same as the ones FC Dallas practice on.  The big difference with CR is that they put 2 teams per field and not 10 like FCD.  

Makes you wonder why the "big club" in Denver can do it for so much less.

Exactly!!! With a bigger field better training etc. But the point of this discussion is coaches who want the check and not the responsibility to develop players. Coach tells a kid you need to work on this or that. Well why do you think the kid is coming to you?

(you being the coach)
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Number13 on 6/8/2017, 8:25 am

In rough terms off the top of my head.....your league costs $400 a year per kid.  Your coach costs $1400 a year per kid.   Your field rental costs $700 a year per kid.  Your club keeps around $500 a year per kid.    And probably makes $150 per kid on the uniform.   That's the deal.  

If your club foregoes any of those things, or subsidizes them, or has "free" access to any of them...your deal is cheaper.   (or perhaps their profit margin is bigger). Maybe that is in Denver, or with an independent, or in Colleyville, or whatever. FCD doesn't give two shits about making your select soccer experience cheaper. Their general youth system has to fully subsidize 100 DA kids AND still serve as a profit center.

Yep, the coach is the most expensive part of the equation.   They get, let's say, $20k a year to coach a select soccer team.  Why?  Because most people think there is a dearth of motivated and qualified dad coaches that would do an equivalent job for free.   Part of living in a largely soccer-poor culture. If you are lucky enough to get an Al Beaney type of free dad coach, you are probably ahead of the curve.

Personally once you look at the staggeringly large amount of time that we put into select soccer, the $ doesn't seem that consequential.   But to each his own.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by finish1 on 6/8/2017, 8:34 am

We pay coaches to develop our players, but truth is the overwhelming majority of them don't have the capacity to do so.

It's a shame for the kids whose parents didn't play the game because they are at the complete mercy of the system (which is not a good thing).

The one parent I can point to that saw this as a huge problem, but made it a quest to make sure his son was surrounded by the right kids at the right time is Preston Polmykal. He did it right.

I did the same thing, but on a smaller scale in that I took the lead in bb's development and spent a ton of time training him technically. Especially during the 4 years he did not play organized ball between U7 and U18. During that time, he and I played together nearly every day 7 days per week.

Bottom line, no one is looking out for your kid but you.
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by bigtex75081 on 6/8/2017, 8:40 am

Finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach is not nearly as difficult as it used to be. At least not in my area. The real challenge is finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach who has a roster that's strong enough to compete on the Classic level. Most volunteer-dad-coaches have 3 or 4 strong players surrounded by 8 or 9 players that simply aren't prepared for select. (OR they don't even have enough to form a full team when you visit them.)

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by tpitty on 6/8/2017, 8:44 am

Number13 wrote: If you are lucky enough to get an Al Beaney type of free dad coach, you are probably ahead of the curve.  

He does a great job. Not too many of them roaming around. cheers
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Riquelme Rises on 6/8/2017, 9:11 am

finish1 wrote:We pay coaches to develop our players, but truth is the overwhelming majority of them don't have the capacity to do so.

It's a shame for the kids whose parents didn't play the game because they are at the complete mercy of the system (which is not a good thing).

The one parent I can point to that saw this as a huge problem, but made it a quest to make sure his son was surrounded by the right kids at the right time is Preston Polmykal. He did it right.

I did the same thing, but on a smaller scale in that I took the lead in bb's development and spent a ton of time training him technically. Especially during the 4 years he did not play organized ball between U7 and U18. During that time, he and I played together nearly every day 7 days per week. (then why go and pay a coach?)

Bottom line, no one is looking out for your kid but you.
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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Number13 on 6/8/2017, 9:20 am

bigtex75081 wrote:Finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach is not nearly as difficult as it used to be.  At least not in my area.  The real challenge is finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach who has a roster that's strong enough to compete on the Classic level.  Most volunteer-dad-coaches have 3 or 4 strong players surrounded by 8 or 9 players that simply aren't prepared for select.  (OR they don't even have enough to form a full team when you visit them.)

So...its easy to find a free and capable coach. But its hard to find one that people want to play for?

Taken at face value, I think that pretty much settles this whole thread.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Uncleof05AP on 6/8/2017, 9:39 am

Finish1, what exactly do you mean by "surrounding your son with the right kids"? Sometimes, you drop nuggets of wisdom without explaining them. A lot of us are on this board to minimize our mistakes in maneuvering the soccer world. I appreciate it.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by bigtex75081 on 6/8/2017, 9:49 am

Number13 wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:Finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach is not nearly as difficult as it used to be.  At least not in my area.  The real challenge is finding a capable volunteer-dad-coach who has a roster that's strong enough to compete on the Classic level.  Most volunteer-dad-coaches have 3 or 4 strong players surrounded by 8 or 9 players that simply aren't prepared for select.  (OR they don't even have enough to form a full team when you visit them.)

So...its easy to find a free and capable coach.  But its hard to find one that people want to play for?  

Taken at face value, I think that pretty much settles this whole thread.  
I may be alone in my perception here.  We have been searching our area for my son's next team.  We've found viable coaches that are "low cost" options.  The recurring issue when we visit with them... the entire roster simply isn't strong enough.  Last year, my son learned a lot from his teammates.  It would be very difficult for me to justify putting him on a new team that lacks viable teammates to consistently challenge him in practice.  With our "low cost" options here, there may be 3 or 4 kids that would push him but not full teams of kids.

The game is the best teacher.  Knowing this, it would be difficult for me to select my son's next team simply based on cost or the competency of the coach.  Knowing that the commitment is for 1 whole year, I need to try to check ALL the boxes, not just a few.

Great coaches in independent teams and small clubs have serious difficulty retaining their players.  Recruiting to independent teams and small clubs is even more challenging.  (I know this from experience.)

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by bigtex75081 on 6/8/2017, 10:06 am

Uncleof05AP wrote:Finish1, what exactly do you mean by "surrounding your son with the right kids"?  Sometimes, you drop nuggets of wisdom without explaining them.  A lot of us are on this board to minimize our mistakes in maneuvering the soccer world.  I appreciate it.
Hypothetical example...

  • Let's say your son has the POTENTIAL to play soccer at 100mph.
  • But you put him on a team that has players that only go 60mph.
  • So your son only has to play at 65mph during practices to be the best player on the team.
  • So even though he has the POTENTIAL to play at 100mph, 65mph is sufficient.
  • The coach might yell at your son to go faster and motivate him to do so, but why push too much harder than 65mph if he's already the team's best player?
  • It's human nature to push to 65mph in this situation.  It's not in most human's nature to push all the way to 100mph when it's neither needed or expected.


Your son needs to go to the right level of team, and that statement is including the teammates as a factor.  You can't go to too weak of a team or too strong of a team.  Too far in either direction will hurt your son's development.

Side note: I think it's significantly worse to put your son on too tough of a team than it is to put him on too low of a team. If you put him on too low of a team, at least he'll still be happy on game day.

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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by finish1 on 6/8/2017, 12:59 pm

RQR, yep I paid some along the way but usually paid less than full price. I didn't have the time/desire to get my license for older kids and spent my entire 25 years coaching U10 and below: Touch, shape and technical skills.

Uncle05, Preston P was a masterful recruiter and surrounded his bb with the best kids at any given age group (dad coach). The clown kids were never a part of the equation. I guess the irony is that PP passed on my bb, but it was ok because I didn't need him anyway. We had different priorities.

The biggest problem I see with coaches around here is they seem to pigeon hole the kids too soon and that always frustrated me. The kids need to move around a lot below U16 and play as many positions as possible. Mine have played keeper, defense, midfield and forward.

IMO, a player can only truly develop if they are put into positions on the field that encourages growth and understanding of the game, all the way up to U16, when the game really starts to matter. Below that age group, we should be chasing development, not titles where kids only play one spot.






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Re: What do we pay coaches/clubs so much money for?

Post by Mr. PK on 6/14/2017, 11:00 am

Given the amount of time I've seen my son's and daughter's coaches put in over the past 16 seasons, and doing some quick math to get an hourly rate, I'd have to say in most cases the salary has been justifiable.

Better question: Why do we pay so much to the clubs? Having been with 6 between the two kids (DT, LFCA, Tejanos, Tornados/AE, Solar), I have yet to see ANY value offered from ANY of them.

Do they get you practice fields (and not just a 20x40 space)? Sometimes. Practice fields with lights? maybe

Does the team name do you any good? Not really. If the team is good enough, you'll get into any tournament you enter, anywhere in the country.

Do they provide intra-club player mobility? No. 95% of mobility is a function of parent/player dissatisfaction with current situation and taking it upon themselves to look for a better coach.

Do they help you get better uniforms? Now that's hilarious. The brand or color doesn't matter and the fact is they usually cost you much more for average quality and stuff you really don't need (i.e. the ridiculous 'pre game' shirt). Why, because they get a kick-back from Nike, Adidas, etc. for sponsoring the club and the bulk order. Plenty of attractive, quality gear out there without either of those logos (or having to go through their ordering system).

My advice to parents of players coming of club age over the last 10+ years: 1) Pick a coach that will help your child develop and that you and the other parents can work with (he's your employee). 2) Pick a team with parents you can live with...literally. You'll be spending a ton of time with them, and one or two idiots will ruin it for everyone. 3) Re-evaluate both #1 and #2 every two years.

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