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TOP 10 2007 teams

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/13/2017, 3:33 pm

bueler13 wrote:Unfortunately parents want to win more than develop players.  As a dad whose son plays with an independent team I can say he has developed into a good player and he is improving every practice. His team focuses on possession than boot the ball up. We have ups and downs, more ups but I can not be happier with what has devloped. At first I was worried about winning a couple of years ago but changed my approach to is he enjoying it and if so then that is what matters. Will he move on down the road to a DA, maybe, but for now we are good because we play soccer the way it should be.  It is about development until U14.

My BB and I have had a similar experience and I couldn't agree more.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/13/2017, 4:20 pm

I have been with an independent and a large club. I really liked our independent team, but after a few years it was no longer developmentally appropriate for my BB. That is not to say the he was the best player on the team by any means. Just no longer seeing the growth that is keeping bueler13 with his club. We had to make the tough decision to move on. The age pure change also had a huge effect on our decision. It was pushing our struggling "06" team up into 05's...and my BB was a young 07.

I agree on the hybrid system, where the top 2-3 maybe 4 teams in a really big club are player pool style and the rest are more team-centric.

Yes the club price is the same for D1 and primetime or PSA teams. But, as a D1 parent, I'm already paying an arm and a leg for Classic, I would hate to have to carry more of the club financial weight, as well!! Just because we play on a better team? We pay for the league ourselves, it is on top of club dues. The club dues only cover the coaches, field rentals, etc. And as far as I know, all the select coaches make the same, per team, from the club. What league you play in changes how much you pay, dramatically! Classic is expensive!!

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Bears on 6/13/2017, 7:59 pm

We left the "prestige" of affiliation with a large club for the freedom and fun of a small independent club and are thrilled with our son's development.

Pros of Large Club
-Great facilities
-Extras like finishing practice and goal keeper practice
-International partnerships which brought coaches from abroad.

Cons
-Doing just enough to get by
-Playing at or just below team skill level rather than playing against stronger, tougher competition
-hiding talented players and/or minimizing visibility for fear they'll be poached

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/13/2017, 8:17 pm

The biggest "Pro" we found after joining a "larger" club was the cooperation between coaches with teams at different levels to get players as many touches as possible during games. A part time player on a Gold team will often play significant minutes on a Silver team as well, and maybe even work on playing a different position with a Bronze time sometimes. Sometimes a Gold player needs to play down for confidence and a Silver player play up as a reward or to establish a the goal of advancement.

The biggest "Con" would be that players seem to come and go a bit more than at the small team we played with. That team stayed almost exactly the same for almost 3 years before imploding w/ age pure.

I don't find any of Bears Cons to be valid in my experience, yet.

When you find the right team and coach for your BB it doesn't matter what the crest is on the jersey. If you don't think you're on the right team then by all means try something different. Your child's happiness is priority 1.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by bueler13 on 6/13/2017, 9:35 pm

http://goalnation.com/high-cost-winning-youth-soccerr

This is a great article that we all should start thinking about. Think about some of the teams that are winning a lot now but are not developing players. What happens to those players at a later date when other players start to past them when they get older? Some of the smaller clubs have just has good of cosches if not better but choose to so it there way instead of playing a style they do not believe in. Kennington before ge went to solar, rush, allegiance, and I am sure others that play it the correct way but do not always win now. It comes down to what you want for your kid and your own stress level (worrying about winning and why am I paying for losing). Long term what do you want for your kid and then once you decide go all in with it. But make sure you are playing at home to have fun as well. Games in the hall way in the front yard just like we did with our sports growing up.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Ron Mexico on 6/13/2017, 11:21 pm

This is a great article that we all should start thinking about.  Think about some of the teams that are winning a lot now but are not developing players. What happens to those players at a later date when other players start to past them when they get older? Some of the smaller clubs have just has good of cosches if not better but choose to so it there way instead of playing a style they do not believe in.  Kennington before ge went to solar, rush, allegiance, and I am sure others that play it the correct way but do not always win now.  It comes down to what you want for your kid and your own stress level (worrying about winning and why am I paying for losing). Long term what do you want for your kid and then once you decide go all in with it. But make sure you are playing at home to have fun as well. Games in the hall way in the front yard just like we did with our sports growing up.

My DD played 4 years for Kennington starting at age 7.  I can honestly say he taught her and her teammates the proper, possession style of soccer. They didn't win all the time , esp against more direct teams when they were younger.  But now she plays ECNL and she has a great understanding of the game. By U13-14 direct play is easily defended.
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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/14/2017, 8:04 am

Kennington is a solid coach that produces some of the most technical players at our age level.  Not to be an insult to the players on his teams, but he does more with less than probably any other coach I have seen.
I have only seen Allegiance play twice, but I would not put them on the same page as Rush, Kennington, DTR, or even McKinney as far as style goes at all.  Both games I saw were as direct as anybody except PST and Rebels.  I've said it before, but maybe I just saw them playing teams that were overpowering their possession style and forcing them more direct.


Last edited by TayJ6 on 6/14/2017, 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I did not type hodor!)

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/14/2017, 9:06 am

TayJ6, I'm assuming you were brought up here in the US, roughly 40yrs old and had very little exposure to soccer prior to your BB playing because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Don't take offense...you're a normal soccer parent.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/14/2017, 9:34 am

Yes born in US, played soccer in college along with one of my brothers and my sister. The other brother played baseball in college and minors. Pretty far from 40 (won't say which direction). Have 3 children that have all migrated to soccer as their primary sport. I consider myself fairly well versed in soccer. Yes the style was completely different went I was playing. And no, none of my children were playing against Allegiance in either of the games I watched.
You can make personal attacks at my character/assumptions of my personal life if you wish, but I can still say in the 2, yes only 2, games that I saw of Allegiance that I personally watched, I did not see that much "possession style soccer" going on. It is my opinion based on only 2 games. I freely admit that. One game was a win against a very direct team where Allegiance cleared the ball out of the back. It was gathered by a midfielder and sent diagonally out wide to a sprinting winger that made a 40 yard run to either a shot or a cross. It was good soccer to beat a high energy pressing attack, but I wouldn't call it "possession style soccer". It was however winning soccer. The other game I saw was a loss against a very strong, physical possession oriented team. If Allegiance was playing possession style soccer in that game, it wasn't working because the other team dominated the ball. I think they are a very good team. Easily in the top 20, and will for sure be playing D1 next season if they stay together. Again, they are a very good team. My comments are not insults. I apologize if my personal observation has offended you, especially if your BB plays for Allegiance. My sons and I enjoyed watching them play, as I do most teams. Most important to me, they played hard and fair. I can get behind that no matter the claimed style. I will make a point to get out to their next game. Maybe they will play a more possession oriented game. If so, I will gladly proclaim it in this thread in hopes that you feel better about your team.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/14/2017, 11:15 am

Believe it or not, I didn't intend to insult. I was describing myself as much as you or anyone else. I meant to describe an era where we played a different game in the US.  We had one play...dribble down the wing and cross it.  To be fair, we had little to no televised games to model the pros.  98% of coaches were parents that had never played themselves.  Heck, even my High School coach had never played soccer before. Bottom line is after personally playing soccer for most of my youth, I had no idea what real soccer was. I've learned far more from my BBs coach than I ever did when I played. That being said, I admittedly know just enough now to be dangerous.

For the sake of argument, the run of play you described sounds like a counter-attack.  Even the most possession based pro team, Barcelona, will counter attack when they catch the defense in transition.  I think we all get caught up in style.  The reality is a well coached team can do it all based on game situations.  The whole purpose of a possession based attack is to probe and exploit weakness in a well organized defense.  If the defense isn't organized, it's easy to break them down with more direct play.  At our age group its extremely difficult to build out of the back against a high press.  Frankly the only team consistently capable is DTR.  BTW if you want to pick a team that gets the most out of its players, its DTR by a landslide. I'd say Rush is almost there.  But for those teams still developing, they can either abandon their style and play for the win, or risk turning the ball over in their defensive third and give up easy goals. I confess, I would rather see my BB's team try to play in a way that will develop him as a player than sell out to win. If that means his team doesn't quite make the top 10 then so be it. Confession #2, I do take a little offense to the notion that the success of possessive style team is based on style over individual talent. Just because he has his head up, scanning the field when possessing the ball looking for the best option to pass doesn't mean he can't beat a defender 1v1. It's comforting to know he plays for a coach that allows and encourages him to make that decision.

I'll leave you with this 100% true story...I recently heard a top coach in our age group tell his absolute stud striker, "Son, you are the best dribbler in the age group, but if you can't make a pass, you can't play soccer".

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/14/2017, 1:04 pm

I agree 100% with your entire post. Most of youth soccer is counter attack after counter attack...that's what makes it direct. The biggest difference is when during the counter attack, that cross is well defended or the the shot would be a bad one, or the numbers balance out as the defense recovers, the "possession player" would pull it back, turn around and find the clean pass that preserves possession at all costs. This pass is followed by the most important part....MOVE! Most kids just swing a cross or a really off angle shot into the legs/body of the defender.

When watching Man City play in the IberCup, they almost never dribbled except to take the given space. It was always a pass to move the ball. No matter what, take the pass the preserves possession. Shots were taken when the player was wide open. They almost never took a defender on except to open up the space that they were leaving and then pass the ball back into that space (which, of course, was being filled immediately by another player) Their off the ball movement was incredible.

It's easy to be a possession team when you are better than your opponent. Sticking with it in the face of a better team is very difficult. And continuing to play the ball out of the back when pressed hard beyond your abilities isn't always the best decision either. The point of playing out of the back is to draw the opponent in so when you pass around them you have a numerical advantage. Sometimes the long ball into the right space is the "possessive" ball. It just depends on what the player does that receives the pass.

Pres. Bush said that "sometimes circumstances dictate policy." What you say on the campaign trail and then the decisions you make in the office can contradict each other. The same holds true in soccer. The idea of possession is a great one, but ultimately the scoreboard shows goals, not time of possession. Possession is just a tool to maximize your chance of scoring while minimizing the chance of your opponent. It isn't the only tool. In my opinion, each team should play to the strengths of their team during games, and focus on developing their weaknesses during training.


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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by cruiser on 6/17/2017, 6:18 pm

any updates from FlameFest? Doesn't look like a terribly deep field - but this time of the year everything seems magnified...

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by DragonStryker on 6/18/2017, 12:18 pm

cruiser wrote:any updates from FlameFest?  Doesn't look like a terribly deep field - but this time of the year everything seems magnified...

I would say it was a fairly weak field actually save for Solar Volkan. Kinda surprised they didn't run the table in their bracket.
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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/18/2017, 4:12 pm

Not just run the bracket but Volkan should've won every game by 3+. Easy for kids to play down to competition though, you see that at every level of competition. Interested to get some feedback from those on site.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by FCD07 Mom on 6/18/2017, 5:11 pm

Solar McKinney was there too. Did Volkan win it all?

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by FCD07 Mom on 6/18/2017, 5:14 pm

So what is wrong with these rankings from YouthSoccer Rankings?

1 FC DALLAS PREMIER RED [5]                31.37
2 PST ATTACK GOLD SALAZAR [20]        30.21
3 DALLAS TEXANS ACADEMY RED LEITE [24] 30.11
4 SOLAR SC MCKINNEY [34]                        29.88
5 DALLAS RUSH FC [45]                        29.59
6 OAK CLIFF REAL GP [58]                        29.29
7 ELITE UNITED FC ARANA [61]                29.2
8 DALLAS REBELS SOCCER LOYA [64]        29.14
9 LIVERPOOL FC AMERICA OWEN [71]        29.02
10 EAST TEXAS WILDCATTERS SC [127]        28.42
11 SOLAR SC KENNINGTON [136]                28.33
12 DALLAS TEXANS WHITE LEITE [159]        28.21
13 SOLAR SC VOLKAN [160]                        28.21
14 FC DALLAS ETX [172]                                28.11
15 FC LEGENDS UNITED RED AP [173]        28.1
16 AYSES SC GOLD [181]                        28.08
17 ALLEGIANCE FC BLACK PEDRO [185]        28.02
18 SOLAR SC MARTINEZ [206]                        27.9
19 NTX CELTIC FC SHIRLEY [237]                27.7
20 FC DALLAS PREMIER BLUE [251]           27.61

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by DragonStryker on 6/18/2017, 5:18 pm

Socceroo wrote:Solar McKinney was there too. Did Volkan win it all?

McKinney/Lanier was there. That's their 2nd team. No where close to a top 20 squad.
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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by cruiser on 6/18/2017, 5:36 pm

What is wrong w/ those rankings? Not sure what you're getting at exactly - but I'd def put Allegiance a little higher up - and also note that Rebels and Oak Cliff Real GP I think are the same team...

How did Flamefest turn out? Was the competition tougher than expected? Volkan w/ the win - but can we read into the closeness of the scores?

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/18/2017, 5:44 pm

Volkan beat Lanier 2-1 in Final. Probably still hurts them in rankings.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by FCD07 Mom on 6/18/2017, 5:48 pm

Where is the Oglesby team?

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by Socceropath on 6/18/2017, 5:50 pm

Oglesby is now Solar-Martinez.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by FCD07 Mom on 6/18/2017, 5:54 pm

Did Oglesby move?

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by DragonStryker on 6/18/2017, 8:24 pm

Oglesby is a UIL coach, he always turns over his teams at some point. Know he's coaching a DA team this year so that may have had an impact on turning that team over to Max this soon.
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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/19/2017, 8:26 am

McKinney/Lanier had a dose of top team help. Final went to penalties, 3-0. Lots of new faces with Volkan, as well
Looks like the close games dropped Volkan 2 spots.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by CATX on 6/19/2017, 8:42 am

TayJ6 wrote:McKinney/Lanier had a dose of top team help. Final went to penalties, 3-0. Lots of new faces with Volkan, as well
Looks like the close games dropped Volkan 2 spots.

No top team help on the Mckinney/Lanier squad...that team competed with their same boys. Championship game was a battle and well played on both sides.

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Re: TOP 10 2007 teams

Post by TayJ6 on 6/19/2017, 9:06 am

Then maybe some kids have played up with the top team before, because they were recognized by the players on the field who had never played that team before.
It was a hot, windy, battle for sure.

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