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DA vs. ODP

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DA vs. ODP

Post by ballMovement on 10/11/2016, 3:53 pm

What is the difference between DA and ODP? For each, what are you gaining from the program? Like DA, it focuses on development. Scouts(college, national) could be at any of the games and pick your kid out. Is ODP the same stuff? At what age should you start joining these programs for your high level playing bb?

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/11/2016, 4:46 pm

ballMovement wrote:What is the difference between DA and ODP?  For each, what are you gaining from the program?  Like DA, it focuses on development.  Scouts(college, national) could be at any of the games and pick your kid out.  Is ODP the same stuff?  At what age should you start joining these programs for your high level playing bb?

START EARLY U11. THERE IS NO "DEPTH" OF TALENT LEFT TO TRAIN AGAINST AT U12 AND U13. NOW WITH DA STARTING AT U12 IT MAY NOT BE WORTH IT IF YOUR BB HAS THE SKILLS TO JOIN A USSF DA TEAM OVERSENN BY US SOCCER
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by earbucket on 10/17/2016, 11:15 am

I know a kid who did ODP at age U14. The Alabama camp was worth the cost to him due to the competition. He thought the regional pool competition was close to DA competition. He sees several kids from that camp all the time who were later recruited to MLS DA teams.

My advice is to have your kid play against the most challenging competition. Nice thing about ODP is that it can be a supplement to classic league teams and HS while DA is a single option.


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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 10/17/2016, 2:42 pm

DA and ODP are two different planets. There is no comparison and ODP doesn't train enough to be relevant. It is an inexpensive way to get extra touches and one or two travel events.

No ODP team from NTX is going to be able to challenge a top CL team let alone a bottom DA team

ODP gave the lowest rankings to one of the most talented U15 midfielders in NTX at which point my BB gave up on ODP after traveling back from Alabama for his second year.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Forthegame4 on 10/18/2016, 8:40 am

ODP is a complete waste of time. We did it one year to see what it was all about. Here is what it is about (IMO): Money Grab, Poor Coaching, Poor Organization of Events, No Continuity, Camp is worth the experience, CL D1 teams will destroy the ODP team (need evidence - look back at last summers NTX ODP Friendlies with South TX. 02/01 LP Rush Fagen (now Solar) was invited to play and they beat STX ODP 7-0 and NTX ODP 6-0).

ODP is fun to get to play with other kids from around NTX, but it has little to no value. CL and DA offer much more in the way of training, development and future opportunities.

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 9:14 am

I will say this, the ODP teams in other parts of Region 3 were a different story. They trained together as a team and seemed to attract good players. I would say the GA and FL 02 ODP teams would give DA teams a run for their money. Big fast athletic skilled kids. Basically GA and FL all-star teams. So I would think if you made the Region 3 ODP team you were likely in a pool of fairly high quality kids. There is a reason the Region 3 teams were almost all from just a few states.

So I don't know that ODP is a failure on the national level. But the NTX ODP was nowhere near that level. Not even close. Its been relegated to the scrapheap in NTX and I don't think it can get resurrected. Get paid the same either way. Half the better kids at 02 age tried out originally, but in 2-3 years there were none/few left. I was at camp in ALA and Gary Williamson is telling the ODP 02 team that they are the best kids in NTX and all the kids are looking around at each other like "are you high?". Cause it was a D3 CL team of talent with no cohesion or roles. I'm glad I went but it was nigh unwatchable. I think BB's coach was kind of trying to make lemonade, but zero shot. This camp cost like $1100. For about 100 mins of soccer a day. Dolla Dolla bill y'all.

BBs coach is, I think, coaching ODP after Xmas. Trying to encourage our kids to come out. I love our coach but that's a big big ask.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by earbucket on 10/18/2016, 9:41 am

I thought the 300 we paid for 10 sessions of ODP was fine and the biggest boon was that the age group got to regularly scrimmage the ODP team that was 2 years older.

I didn't attend Alabama camp, but the 1100 seemed fine for the bus ride there, the flight back, room/board and the sessions during the day and evening. My son enjoyed the experience including the ping-pong matches and push-up contests back at the dorm, so I had no issues with money paid.

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by KNolan05 on 10/18/2016, 9:58 am

Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams? My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that. Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX. Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me. That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 10/18/2016, 10:27 am

KNolan05 wrote:Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams?  My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that.  Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX.  Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me.  That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...    

If they are not competitive then they need to select everyone who comes out and let it be known that they will NOT help your BB get Identified.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/18/2016, 10:28 am

KNolan05 wrote:Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams?  My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that.  Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX.  Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me.  That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...    

yes, some of these "TRUMP-IAN" statements can be confusing. my BB is now U16 DA and there is no doubt the ODP program in Texas could never field a competitive team to play them. as some have stated, ODP in other regions remains competitive (minus about 20 top players committed to DA) in Dallas at least 60 boys in each age group are not available for ODP in NTX. you can do your own math on hoe diluted competition is locally in ODP. PLEASE HEAR MY POSITIVE OPINIONS as well as negative lol

my bb enjoyed experience. extra touches and practices were helpful and relatively inexpensive. however, player identification sucked (my BB was relegated to 4th of 5 teams first year. not chosen for any trips except for Arkansas which every BB can take. the second year he moved uo to third string team lol. still not selected for Alabama, he did ultimately go as an alternate when some top players cancelled at last minute. during the alabama trip he watched as his NTX peers played in the evening Region 3 "POOL" games. my son is an attacking mid and on the very last evening of pool games against the invited mexico team, he got a few minutes at right back and for the first time in two years was able to show what he had, while playing with boys that could add the "GO" to "give and go". when he was selected as one of 6 Texas players for the Region 3 ODP pool (NTX and STX) combined (55 total players from 12 state Region 3, his coaching were so surprised. neither my son nor i ever doubted his ranking against his NTX ODP peers but the coaches never got past the fact that he wasn't delivered to them by a D1 classic league coach. Political? Incompetence? Lack of coaching effort to Identify? you make the call

if your BB is not in DA i recommend checking out Odp. just understand what its benefits are
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/18/2016, 10:30 am

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
KNolan05 wrote:Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams?  My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that.  Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX.  Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me.  That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...    

If they are not competitive then they need to select everyone who comes out and let it be known that they will NOT help your BB get Identified.  

AGREED!!!!! bounce bounce bounce
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 10:35 am

KNolan05 wrote:Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams? My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that. Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX. Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me. That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...

I don't think anybody expects them to create a team that is going to play/compete against those teams. The thing is, if you are already on a better team than the ODP team....with better practices...and better teammates...and better coaching. Why are you paying an extra $1500 for this? Maybe for something different. At least that was my logic. But then you go watch it and its definitely something different.

The cost was around $150 for tryouts. Then $300 for ten practices. Due to CL conflicts etc we were able to make about half of the practices. So $60 a practice, with two hours of driving to get there. Then $1100 for camp. The camp was one light sub-1hr practice a day, one game for almost all of the kids. Three days of that. Plus a bus ride. I'm a huge fan of throwing money at soccer in incredibly silly ways, and this all seemed like a bad deal.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/18/2016, 10:38 am

Number13 wrote:
KNolan05 wrote:Do others that participate in ODP really expect that they will put together squads to compete with DA or top level CL teams? My kids are new to ODP, but we never had any expectation like that. Just more touches and a chance to work with other good players in their age group around NTX. Not that complicated, and the cost does not seem unreasonable to me. That said, we are new and have yet to be influenced by others who have strong opinions against ODP...

I don't think anybody expects them to create a team that is going to play/compete against those teams. The thing is, if you are already on a better team than the ODP team....with better practices...and better teammates...and better coaching. Why are you paying an extra $1500 for this? Maybe for something different. At least that was my logic. But then you go watch it and its definitely something different.

The cost was around $150 for tryouts. Then $300 for ten practices. Due to CL conflicts etc we were able to make about half of the practices. So $60 a practice, with two hours of driving to get there. Then $1100 for camp. The camp was one light sub-1hr practice a day, one game for almost all of the kids. Three days of that. Plus a bus ride. I'm a huge fan of throwing money at soccer in incredibly silly ways, and this all seemed like a bad deal.

I love the way you put "Pen to Paper". Where can I buy some of you works?
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by ballMovement on 10/18/2016, 12:49 pm

Awhile back, my 02 bb tried out for ODP and made the team. We didn't end up taking the offer because I didn't see many quality players during tryouts in his age group. My son was in CL D2 at that time and it felt like there were a lot of kids with lesser skills. We wanted to be able to play and learn from higher competition with greater skill sets. But it didn't give us the vibe that it would do that for us.

Currently, I have a bb in a DA. We're just starting and trying to understand these programs.

ODP advertised what the program can do and it sounded much like what DA is sounding like to me now and I wanted to know what is the difference between the 2 programs.


Last edited by ballMovement on 10/18/2016, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add)

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 1:11 pm

ballMovement wrote:Awhile back, my 02 bb tried out for ODP and made the team. We didn't end up taking the offer because I didn't see many quality players during tryouts in his age group. My son was in CL D2 at that time and it felt like there were a lot of kids with lesser skills. We wanted to be able to play and learn from higher competition with greater skill sets. But it didn't give us the vibe that it would do that for us.

ODP advertised what the program can do and it sounded much like what DA is sounding like to me now and I wanted to know what is the difference between the 2 programs.

Here DA has the higher competition and greater skill sets you mention. It also has greater requirements. 4 days a week of training. No school sports. Selective and highly competitive entry for spots on the team. FCD makes you go to Frisco ISD, etc. Its the main (likely only) soccer activity/vehicle for 60 or so of the best kids in your son's age group. Its as focused as it gets here. I don't know that it makes it the all-singing all-dancing soccer extravaganza, but it attracts top level kids and makes them practice a lot of soccer.

ODP is not real selective. They train about every other week. Its a secondary soccer outlet for kids looking to do more soccer. My understanding is that it USED to be the main entity for kids looking to get "ID'd" for more and more selective player pools. But that time seems to have passed. Big clubs will actively discourage kids from attending, perhaps with good reason. I assume that NTX ODP knows what it is and is just going to try to make a sales pitch based on things they are not currently delivering. I suppose its possible that if you get picked for Regional ODP you can break out of the NTX ODP orbit and maybe something awesome is happening there. I do think the skill level of the kids would be pretty high and it would be competitive. But still, its kids from all over the Region, you are maybe going to get a week of it and then back to DFW. It seems like ODP has room to improve, maybe it will....

But DA meanwhile is going on 4 days a week, every week. Locally.

My son is your son's age. Have never tried out for DA. Have gone to ODP multiple years. Have never been picked for anything at ODP. So grain of salt with all.

I see your "have son in DA" now comment. So I would guess you know the difference.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by GotNoGame on 10/18/2016, 1:20 pm

I found out and reported back in July that four 02s had been picked for the Region III pool, and someone else said that 8 03s had been picked for the pool. Anyone have any idea where any of those players are now? Are any of them in PA/DA? Are they in big clubs or independents? CL or PPL or APL? etc. Just curious. For the 02s, it might be interesting to know whether they're still doing ODP if they're not in DA and what their take on the whole thing is.

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 1:34 pm

GotNoGame wrote:I found out and reported back in July that four 02s had been picked for the Region III pool, and someone else said that 8 03s had been picked for the pool. Anyone have any idea where any of those players are now? Are any of them in PA/DA? Are they in big clubs or independents? CL or PPL or APL? etc. Just curious. For the 02s, it might be interesting to know whether they're still doing ODP if they're not in DA and what their take on the whole thing is.

Going off the published list:

02s
One on Stricker 02 D1
One on Ody 02 D1
One on FCDP 02 D1
One on FCD Red 02 D2

I don't know the 03s, but one of 8 is currently on a DA team (Solar). Rest, no clue. Of course, no clue just means that..like everyone else...I am not inclined to take the 5 mins to search them out.

http://regioniii.usyouthsoccer.org/programs/ODP_Boys/

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by GotNoGame on 10/18/2016, 2:47 pm

Fair enough. :-) Thanks Number13. Anyone know if any of the 02s are still doing ODP this year? Looks like they'd all be eligible (no DA players).

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by earbucket on 10/18/2016, 2:53 pm

With the change to birth year for select teams, ODP doesn't have the lure for the kids born in the later months. One of the advantages was that Aug-Dec kids could get a physical challenge playing older boys.


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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 2:59 pm

earbucket wrote:With the change to birth year for select teams, ODP doesn't have the lure for the kids born in the later months. One of the advantages was that Aug-Dec kids could get a physical challenge playing older boys.


Agree, that is an advantage. But in terms of influencing decisions, I think you are grossly overestimating the desire to play as a younger kid. In the end, almost everybody wants everything to be easier, not harder. You begrudgingly accept the handicap because you have no choice, but very few seek it out.
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by earbucket on 10/18/2016, 3:08 pm

from NY Cosmos Coach:

"A lot of times, these kids' first thought is to find an easier solution than to confront adversity. I think we're afraid [in the U.S.] to push kids or put them in difficult situations. People are more concerned about protecting them rather than preparing them to overcome obstacles. It's a false security. It makes them feel like if soccer doesn't work out, it's not their fault: it's the system, it's the coach, it's the teacher. They're allowed to escape into a different place where things will be easier."

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Number13 on 10/18/2016, 3:20 pm

I'm sure that it true. But its not like this is isolated to US youth soccer players. Its everybody.

Want a system where you get more out of it than you put in, even though that is unsustainable? Absophuckinglutely. Welcome to the US, my friend.

At some point soccer is going to "stop working out" for everyone as a player. Everyone. I don't think you are failing your kid with how you manage that situation. Lot bigger things to figure out. But yeah its the guy who puts all eggs in basket who is going to work the hardest for it. He who has options and excuses and a nice cushy deal isn't going to go as hard as the guy who had to fight for it.

"Charlie didn't get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death, or victory." - Ben Willard
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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Uncleof05AP on 10/18/2016, 3:32 pm

No. 13, I am trying picture John Wooden using that quote in a halftime speach. I am going to put it on a shirt for Billy Bob to wear to his elementary school. Thanks for providing it.

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by ballMovement on 10/18/2016, 6:39 pm

Number13 wrote:I see your "have son in DA" now comment. So I would guess you know the difference.

My 04bb is in DA now. So we're testing the waters to see if this program is worth it. So far we are liking what we see compared to what we knew of about ODP. Just wondering if y'all can tell me your experiences from both programs.

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Re: DA vs. ODP

Post by Soccer27 on 10/18/2016, 10:26 pm

There is a big difference between ODP and DA. ODP is for those that just want extra touches and play time. You meet new parents and your BB gets to play with new kids. There is. I chemistry but everyone on the top ODP team are good. Is it worth all the money you pay ... the answer is no. But if you have extra money and feel like letting your BB play and practice more than it's worth it. You will have the parents whose kids werent selected to ODP bad mouth ODP and blame it on politics. My BB did it for 2 years and was selected to Alabama. We past on going to Alabama since he was already selected for DA.

DA you practice more, play against the top team against the top players. It's well worth it. I would recommend it to the BB who want to take their soccer career to a higher level. You will get exposure and it's well worth the sacrifice.

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